Alan: So how's things?

It's been a few

weeks.

Yeah.

So how's things you've been busy.

You've been away, right.

Mario: Yeah, yeah.

I've been both busy and
away at the same time.

Alan: You're supposed to
have relax on holiday.

Do you know?

Mario: yeah.

Right.

I did actually, I did.

We went away for

about a

week and we got to disconnect and be off
the grid for pretty much the entire time.

Alan: I'm

Mario: Except for a

couple of times where we had to drive to

somewhere where we could get
signal because we needed to

put out a couple of fires.

But

other than that, we were
off the grid for about a

week.

Alan: I think it's going off
the grid actually comes with

its own form of, anxiety.

Right.

Because you're worried about what

you're missing

in terms of like, you know,
any problems with servers or

just anything.

Yeah.

You know, you're

kind of

like when you see that
certain bars come back, you're

like, oh

my God, the notifications are

just going to come.

Mario: Yeah,

Alan: So

Mario: just a stream of them.

Alan: yeah.

to get to a point where
actually not getting

notifications doesn't create
anxiety would be nice.

Mario: Yeah.

Yeah, totally no, but it was
nice to be away for a while.

We went camping in the woods up in the
mountains near Santa Cruz, California.

So Redwood forest, really nice.

Alan: Very nice.

Mario: Found a really nice
campground and we did have access to,

restrooms and shower, but, you know,

Alan: that's the best
kind to come ground to go

because you're you're away, but
you still have running water.

Mario: Yeah, exactly.

And it was,

quite a bit of a walk to get
to the restrooms, but still

Alan: were that

Mario: yeah, exactly.

They were there.

It was nice to have that

option, you know,

Alan: awesome.

Very nice.

Sounds.

Sounds fantastic.

You had good weather as well.

Mario: Oh, yeah, it was nice.

It's nice and

warm.

But at night it would cool

down a little bit, so it

would get really nice

and comfortable, you

know?

Yeah, yeah,

Alan: nice.

Very nice.

Mario: yeah,

So

Alan: we haven't had quite so
a comfortable weather here.

We've been we've had a lot of rain, so

we say

it's it's been something else.

Yeah.

We for like four or five days
straight, it was like constant,

just, and not a drizzly either that
like proper, you know, proper rain.

So there's a town about
50 kilometers from here.

Not far.

And they had a one on over a meter,

so that's like three and a
half over three and a half

feet of rain in three

days.

And in the

last five days, they've

had a third of their usual
annual rainfall in five days.

So there's been like floods
and landslides and everything.

We're okay here.

Cause.

Concrete.

But yeah, up in the mountains and
the villages or towns around here,

we've just been like, oh, it's nasty.

Mario: Yeah, that's always a danger right.

In,

In, the countryside with Hills

and

mountains and getting those
landslides When you have a lot of

rain coming down all at once.

Alan: Exactly.

It's kind of a lot of, you know, the,
I remember when I first moved here,

date that happened, I think the year
we first moved on the site, huh?

That's

pretty bad.

That happened the year after.

And it happened the year after it's
basically happened every single year.

And there's supposed to be like a

once in a 50 year.

I think that this kind

of rain and landslides happen, it's
like, no, no, it happens every year now.

That's just, that's the way it is now.

So,

Yeah, I think there's a lot of
things gonna have to change.

But it's kind of scary.

Mario: Yeah.

Yeah.

Climate change is real.

Alan: Oh, yeah.

And things, it's not
going to stop you though.

I mean, here,

the forecast areas for the next, like,
look on, you know, apple weather,

it's like continuous rain for the

next, you know, until
the whole screen is rain.

So it's like a hundred percent

chance every day.

And it's like, yeah, it's not
going to stop anytime soon.

This is, suppose this isn't rainy season.

This is just, you know, summit now.

Mario: yeah.

Yeah.

Alan: So yuck.

No good.

So, yeah.

you haven't really done a lot to

fusioncast.

Then if you've been up in the mountains,

Mario: Yeah.

Yeah, both fortunately And

unfortunately, right.

Alan: you need it, you need that break,

Mario: yeah, yeah.

It

Alan: especially since you're studying
new job and you're, you know, got to get

kind of back into gear for that.

It's

nice to have a bit of separation and
a clear head a little bit before that.

Right.

As well.

Mario: Yup.

Yup.

Starting next Monday.

So

Alan: Excellent.

But you said it's fully remote, right?

So you go

from your

desk to the same place, just
different set of coworkers, right.

Mario: Yup.

Yup.

Yup.

Fully remote.

So,

Alan: Changing jobs.

Remote is that is kind of weird.

Yeah.

Because you're like, I'm still here.

It's just a different slack channel.

Mario: Right.

Alan: It's kind of weird as nice, nice

chance to get to know some new folks.

And I think so that the
roles actually different.

Mario: It's more,

development, heavy, more

engineering side of things.

more so that than design or

anything like that.

I,

think they kind of liked that I have

some design background, you know I
just know enough to be dangerous,

when it comes to design, But

Alan: You've got something
to tell him that.

Mario: Yeah, thanks.

But primarily

the role is as

a developer.

Alan: I was pleasantly
surprised this week.

So, you know, I've been kind of a
little paranoid about my design skills

or rather lack of design skills.

And I tweeted something
earlier in the week.

Just kind of a mini update was
poked by nudged by a friend here.

And it's

like, you know, you haven't
posted anything for ages.

And then you kind of get into this way.

Because you're

doing it, you assume people know about it.

Right.

And sometimes you kind of, it forces,
you know, somebody else kind of

going, you know, you're not actually
talking about it It's all going on in

your head, on, on your laptop, but.

you're not actually talking about it.

So just that small notice, like, oh
Yeah, I should probably post something.

So I posted just a few screenshots of
like the, the redesigned new check-in.

And like, does that a modal
for like, you know, the welcome

modal or something?

So I posted those and somebody
who I did some work for, oh

God, a really long time ago.

Like 10.

Yeah.

about 10, nine or 10 years ago.

So he he's built a number of companies.

He's kind of smart guy CEO of
founded like an bank in the UK.

And so he posted like for for a new
product that, you know, your, your app

looks incredibly elegant and really nice.

design.

And I'm like,

Mario: Oh,

Alan: seriously, I, I can't tell anymore.

And some of my friends would
have followed up with like,

no, really is it looks great.

I I'm like That's That means a
lot to me because I am really

self-conscious of the design, just
because I don't have any confidence

in whether it's a good design or not.

It's like, Well, it looks not too untidy.

And it looks kind of okay to my iPad.

I've got no it's very
difficult for me to, to be,

To, to actually have an
understanding of whether it's good or

not.

So just to get somebody who I don't

have any regular contact with.

You know

w we don't really talk or

anything apart from, you
know, a long time ago for him

to, to

say something like that was like oh, okay.

Maybe it's all right after
all, if he's not so bad.

So that

was nice.

Mario: Well, no, it does look great.

I haven't seen the latest

redesign you've done, but, from using it
before it's really nice and clean and,

and it has this, what I like, about it is

that it has this

nice combination of modern, but
old school at the same time with

just simplicity, you know, very,

Alan: A few people have said this to

me before the eight
kind of feels a slightly

retro and I'm like, eh, that's okay.

Mario: yeah,

Alan: don't mind

Mario: I'm pretty sure that's intentional,

Alan: it is

Mario: keeping it simple.

Alan: right.

I mean, it's it's partly
just my aesthetic.

Yeah.

Preferences as well.

You know, I kind of like
older style web applications

and you know, that style
of just simplicity and.

So it does what it says.

Right.

So that, but with a slightly, you
know, obviously tailwind UI has been

a, an absolute godsend for me, you
know, just because it's given me

a good

set of

like foundation of like
stepping stones to build upon.

And, and I think I mentioned
before reading Adam's refactoring

UI, is it his, his book?

I'm sure I've mentioned before, but like
I read through that a number of times

of just like, kind of dipping in, you
know, when you, you dip into something

and you don't actually think that you've
read it all, you kind of like, oh Yeah.

I kind of skimmed that.

I read a few pages and in your
mind, it's like, no, I really

should go back and read that.

And then when you, do you realize
you've actually probably read it

all just in different segments and.

And it struck me that when I did go
back and look at it, I was actually

using the techniques that he covers
without actually realizing it.

You know, I've kind of.

I I've somewhat absorbed them.

And it, I think it's
helped my design skills a

lot, even though, you know,
that's still a long way to go in

a style sense, but I

think the

A lot of

the things he talks about, I
seem to have taken on board

subconsciously and seem
to, be using those.

So hopefully that's helped as well.

So it's it's a really good resource that
book and just tailwind UI in general,

just cause there's some very good.

Useful patterns in there

that you can build upon.

So yeah, I like it saves me save my life.

That's

Mario: yeah.

I haven't had a chance to,

I've seen tailwind UI, just a
website and the sample, components

that they have there, but

I haven't to use the product
itself and I haven't.

bought the book either,

but,

but I, but I am using tailwind

CSS, so it's awesome.

I love it.

Alan: I think then, I mean, there's

this

danger of falling into like, you
know what bootstrap was in the

early two thousands, mid two thousands.

Maybe.

I can't remember when bootstrap
first kind of started and it

was the

first re-usable and

dropping and looks good

framework.

There was this danger

of

suddenly everything looked
like bootstrap, right.

You know, overnight, every
website was bootstrapped.

Mario: yeah.

You could see it from a mile away.

Every

website Oh Yeah.

It's bootstrap.

Alan: It's pretty strong.

So there's a slight danger.

I mean, when you start using tailwind
UI, you see this all the time.

You say, oh,

that windows it's the same

backgrounds, the same site you know,

color.

Mario: Same aesthetics.

Alan: Same aesthetics yeah.

So there's a slight danger of that,
but it doesn't seem to have kind

of annihilated everything else.

Like bootstrapped did, there's
not taken over in the same way,

but it's there's definitely easy to
spot, but it, as I say, there's a lot

of components that are a lot of styles
that I'm using that are completely my

own, but I started with a tailwind.

It may be, that was what
it was first on the page.

And It's been completely rewritten
and moved around a bit, but it stuck

with that general layout and the
that the systems that it's using.

And it's, it's just a really
good foundation for, for someone

like me who, you know, isn't,

doesn't have any design
background to draw upon.

So it's

highly recommended for me.

Mario: Yeah.

Alan: well worth it.

Or is it $180 or something it's paid for?

It's you know, I think it paid for
itself in the first hour when I used it

Highly recommended.

Mario: yeah.

yeah.

I'll, I'll get to it.

at some point.

Alan: Well, it's probably less

necessary for you because you
obviously know based on, you know,

fusioncast, and you know, your,
your landing pages and everything

yet, you

don't need, it so much

as.

but but the book is, is probably,
there's probably even some

stuff

you get from this book, which is just
like, oh yeah, that's why I do this.

I think more than anything that
I'm explaining it's not just,

this looks good, this doesn't,

it's like, this is why
this is better than this.

And just internalizing those
things was really helpful for me.

So.

Mario: Yeah, Yeah, because
that becomes repeatable.

And once you understand those
principles and why we need

spacing, why you need, more.

all the core principles of design,
repetition, you know, negative

space and all that stuff.

Alan: Yeah, a lot of stuff
with just deemphasizing

texts with using colors
and instead of like

labels and things,

just using color schemes and
deemphasizing things with, you

know, bolding, certain things and it's

yeah.

Which, you know, adds, just

stick a label next to everything and go,
is there, you know, what it is, right.

When someone says I there's a better

way,

and this is

how

you get it.

Oh, okay.

I get

Mario: Yeah.

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

That's why a while back, I decided to
invest a little more time in learning

a little bit of these principles
because I was really clueless when it.

came to designs,

Alan: Yeah.

you didn't have any design background?

Either.

Mario: No, no, no.

I just started a few years ago.

I started paying more attention to that.

Okay.

Why is it that I like this website?

What are the characteristics that make it

a aesthetically pleasing?

Right.

And I started paying more

attention to that and okay.

I like the typography or, you know,
how much space they used and how

things are lined up in a certain
way and, or, you know, Different

little characteristics that make
a site look, you know, nice and

look as aesthetically pleasing.

So, yeah, and I, I took some of
those free email courses, you know,

you get a drip style, read some blog

articles and, and just all over time.

I kept.

Consuming more of that content and

internalizing

some of those principles of design

and, little by little, it was just,

you

know, I would like to think that I got a

little bit better, you know, about that

and, I just know enough

to

be dangerous.

Like I said.

Alan: no it's great.

So, I mean, I kind of learned
programming the same way.

Right.

You know, nobody taught me to program.

It was like,

Mario: Hm.

Alan: read books and copied the other

people's code until I knew

how to do it.

Right.

So I guess,

similar thing, it's

just, I had less of a, I guess,

less

confidence in design, whereas, you
know, code was always like this,

this

feels like my domain, whereas
design, I don't know whether

it.

I guess it's not really gatekeepery
or anything, but it feels

like, you know,

I Don't have permission to do

it well,

like I'm not the designer, so therefore,
you know, but it's, I guess it's,

same with anything else.

If you do it, that's what you do, right.

Mario: Yeah.

Yeah.

Alan: Don't need someone's
permission to be a designer.

Mario: you give yourself
permission and just go for

it.

Yeah.

It's

just a step outside your comfort
zone and that's how you grow.

So, Yeah.

You're right.

same as programming.

much of

what I know about coding.

I've learned it on my

own.

Reading and looking at other people's
code and, and tinkering with things

trial and error, all the time.

So it's the same thing
with design, I think.

And then sometimes I look
at some designs from actual

designers and, they look amazing.

I'm like, I can never

do something like that, but
you know, as long as we know,

enough to make something.

Alan: Right.

Mario: User-friendly

and

Alan: Yeah.

I mean, I have a folder on

my desktop that I generally screenshot
or anything that stands out in any way to

me, like, oh, that that's, that's good.

I'd screenshot and throw it in there.

and, I.

There probably is, but
I've never looked over.

She was a tool that I could organize
the, I don't know, organize them,

but make them more
accessible to me as opposed

to

just a folder that I throw everything to.

But one day I'll go back

and, organize it.

Right.

Like my music library.

Mario: Yeah.

Yeah.

Alan: But yeah, it's a, I think.

Like anything, when you start paying
attention to it, then you automatically

start to get a little bit better.

Cause you start to question,
why does that, look good?

you know, what's the one thing,
actually, this is a slight

detail, but, it's a design tactic.

I've seen on a few websites now
with, regarding to onboarding.

So I've been as I said, I did some
new modals for like when you arrive at

DotPlan for the first time after signing
up, up for accepting an invitation.

And when you own a different one,
when you go to the new check-in

page for the first time, it just
explains what the things are.

So I probably will change to using one of
those little pop up things, but they're

expensive and I'll put that off for
another day, at least for the moment.

So.

And looking at like
onboarding modals and things.

I noticed something with sign-ups
and, and also like the, the

onboarding or the signup process
for some apps that I've seen.

That looks really good and kind of
as given me ideas for how I want to

do it, which is, you know, there's
a multi-step process, like, you

know, your name and then create an
organization, which I have this idea,

you know, you create your account
and then if it's not an invitation,

you have to create a workspace.

What's the workspace name or workspaces.

You know, you're grouping, whether
it's your company name or whatever.

But I've seen three or four pages now
that, on that, rather than give you just

a white page with a form that she put a
blurred out, somebody else's like demo

page of the application behind the modal.

So even at the sign-up things,
you know, creating an account.

They'll put like an example
page of the application in

progress.

But then blow

it

out slightly and it looks really
good as in like, you, you get

an idea for what you're signing
up for, not just a white page.

You know you've read the landing

page and you go to sign up and it
just gives you a blank page, but it

gives you like a, it feels like you're

already inside the
application, even though you're

just a static signup page.

Mario: You're signing up.

Alan: So I'm kind

of attempted to try and do
that at some point when I

have a spare afternoon to spare,
I'm not busy not doing anything.

But

Mario: In your sleep.

Alan: yeah, exactly.

Mario: it in your sleep.

Alan: So I

think it might have a trailer that
just because there is this multi-step

process, you know, for signing up

and I think it, it just looks, it feels

nice as, you know, as you're signing
up, it's like, oh, I'm already in it.

Mario: Yeah.

Yeah.

Talking about design and onboarding.

One of

the one of the demos that
I did I was showing the.

The screen that comes up
when you log in for the

first time into a fusion
cast, and I've created, if you

remember this little graphic that
shows boxes, that show recordings,

go

Alan: This is in there.

Mario: and sessions go into podcasts.

And I kind of explained
a little bit there that's

the extent of my onboarding at this
point, you know, it's super simple.

And,

when I was explaining

that and showing that.

The

person I, I, was doing the demo for
she's like, are you an engineer?

And I'm like, yes.

Alan: Maybe.

Mario: It's just like, Hmm.

Okay.

Because the way I'm presenting that, it's,
it's just like, is this how things are

structured in the database?

Yeah,

Alan: Yeah, he's putting into a box.

Mario: Yeah, pretty much.

It's just like, Hmm.

Okay.

Alan: Yeah, it's a giveaway.

Isn't it?

Mario: Yeah.

Yeah.

And she's a UX designer.

So, I'm sure she's going to have a lot of

feedback about that because
she was already pointing out

the fact that, I'm presenting this from an

engineer perspective.

And it's not necessarily

the most user-friendly thing for someone,

without a technical

background.

And so.

Alan: Yeah, You got to be careful.

I mean, it's so easy to

expose your light database design in
your forms and things just because

that's the easiest way to do it.

Right.

And it's say, well, this is, this is
one model and this is another, and

therefore the different forms, right?

When, you know, a lot of the
time that the user doesn't care

about that differentiation, if
I take confuses them, you know?

So,

Mario: Yeah.

Alan: I mean you have a reasonably clear.

Terminology you using in

terms of,

like shows and episodes And things.

so.

Yeah.

maybe there's some

other way of visualizing it.

That is, that

is more in line with, this
is a show and this is an

episode, right?

So even within

like an example podcast
player or something, you

might be able to show something like that.

So but yeah,

but box is probably a
little bit engineering,

so.

Mario: Yeah.

Alan: Giving it away

Mario: Yeah.

And the, the whole mental model of,
one thing goes inside another inside

another, there's got to be a better
way, but then again, you know, I'm

not a UX designer, I'm not a designer,
but yeah, I try I do my best.

Alan: So one thing I I had,

It had a couple of oh,
are you okay for time?

By the way, I

Mario: Yeah, yeah.

This one's going to be
a short one, I guess.

We'll.

We'll have to wrap it
up in about five to 10

Alan: Okay.

I'll be

quick.

So I had that interesting
mentoring session.

I had a couple of mentoring sessions at my
coworking space over the past few weeks.

yeah, They, they asked me to Invited
to say, we've got these Japanese

mentors coming in investors and
you know, they have experience in

marketing and things.

Do you want this in Japanese?

So one of us can help you if you speak
some Japanese as well as kind of handy.

So we kind of a combination of me
plus one of the staff that I am

friends with was helping translate.

And so an interesting one this week
she was got a lot of experience

in terms of online marketing for
games like mobile games and things.

And so she was very helpful in looking
at it from a Japanese company's

perspective or at least to Japanese.

SaaS users' perspective.

And she's like, okay, now I can't really
you know, you, you know, better than

me marketing this to the world, but
I can kind of give you some advice or

ideas selling it to, to Japanese staff.

And so there's two, I guess, main things,
you know, one thing the onboarding

is probably even more important
here than it is you know, elsewhere.

And I think I've mentioned this before
that the non-Japanese users that have

had on like on the beta and things
were happy to play with it and figure

it out on their own and almost want to
figure out their own way of using it.

Whereas Japanese staff, and she's like,
you know, this, this is how it is.

I'm telling you now.

you need to change this, which
is basically state how to use it.

Not, not, you know, you could do this.

No, this is how the application is used.

You know, just be clear and direct.

This is what you do.

This is why you do it.

And this is when you do.

And plus just the onboarding you
know, a modal is probably not enough.

You just need step-by-step you need
like, you know, do this here, do

this there, and then click this.

Do that and to go with that, give
basically guidelines she called them i.e.

Instructions so like eight for
everything that you do have

a question mark next to it.

And it opens a help box, which is like,
this is this, and this is how you do

it in a step by step for each thing.

She was like, you know, you
might get a startup-y type users.

Forgive that, and you know, that might
understand that and be okay with it.

But if you sell to any bigger company, you
need that, but there's no option in the,

it's kind of, you need a guideline for
everything that you do in the application.

You need instructions.

I say, We've, I kind of knew this was.

You know, we've been asked to do it
before for other things I've done here.

But for just be like,
no, this isn't optional.

You need this.

If you sell to anybody above, you
know, a smaller company that is more

engineering kind of focused anyway.

And I said, okay, so it's
we've started it already.

Cause we had some of them done for one
of the customers we're working with here.

But I guess we just need more.

But one of the other things she mentioned
that that made me there's this do it like

the onboarding that the landing page and
just the sales side of things was, you

know, you know, one of my plans sooner
rather than later, is to have integration

with Slack primarily, and then potentially
Microsoft Teams, just because that's big.

Both in terms of reminders and also
like, you know, digests for, you know,

at the end of the day, after other
people have checked in kind of pop

up a digest, just something to keep.

Regular and keep making sure people
are involved with it and they can have

visibility to what's going on and you
might get a reminder to, you know,

to check in and things like that.

And she's like, that's good.

But even if you don't have it
yet say you're going to do it

right at the top of your page.

Because the first thing,
when I see anything.

Web, you know, an application about
team communication or team even

if it's asynchronous or anything.

If I see the words, team
and communication, I think,

well, we'll just use Slack.

It's just like, Oh, it's just teams.

We don't need another thing.

So by stating early on, as
soon as possible on the page

that you will be introducing

integration with slack, our teams, it
automatically raises the question of,

well, if it integrates with slack,
It must be something different.

So without stating

that you're kind of leaving open,
that it might just be another slack

kind of thing.

So she's at a froze.

You, even if you,

if it's not ready yet, just say coming
soon and slack integration and then

link and explain what it will do,

even if you don't, you know, it's
another three months away or so, so

Mario: Nice.

Yeah.

That's that sounds like
pretty good advice.

Sounds good to me.

Alan: just because

it's, again, it's in, I've had
a few people say, oh, but we

use Teams and it's like, Yeah.

but that doesn't matter.

This isn't,

this isn't a

chat app.

It's something different.

Well, yeah, but we have Teams.

Yeah,

Mario: Yeah,

Alan: so,

Mario: it.

Alan: yeah, but by kind of

being.

Clear that, Yeah.

That's good.

You use

Teams and you can use this with
it for these reasons, and this

will help with these things

then hopefully that,
that will clear that up.

So that's, that's something I'm going to.

I'm going to add to my landing page on
my current redesigning kind of thing.

And one last thing that they

both her and the previous mentor
mentioned was like your current persona

of who you're targeting is way too wide.

At least at this stage, just
pick someone, pick an industry.

It doesn't matter, you know, you
know, engineers pick engineers and.

Sell to them.

At least at first, just because you
without that your, I know this, and I've

read this a million times a night, you
know, a million, this isn't something

it's frustrating because I know this.

Right.

But at the same time,
it's really hard to do.

Just because you, you think you're, but

anybody can use this, right.

So therefore I don't
need to sell to a person,

but with.

Yeah.

They're like, well, who'd
you want me to introduce

you to, and I'm like anybody.

Oh, that's not good enough.

Tell me which of my teams do you want me.

to introduce you to?

So by, you know,

having it, even if it's
narrow to something

like, you know,

creatives, even if it's, you
know, designers or engineers

or someone who's a creative in

some way, well, that's enough.

That's better than anybody.

So,

Mario: So narrow down,
narrow down your target.

It's still teams, but a
specific kind of team, right?

There's no specific maybe industry or

yeah.

Alan: yeah.

And then, you know, she said, well,
obviously that, that makes it easier

then to target communities.

Right.

You know, you can go to a you,

know, Reddit community or, you know,
one of the slack or discord channels

and be like, Hey, new tool for designers

or for developers that are doing things.

So,

You know, without that you're just like,

Here's a tool.

Mario: Yeah.

Alan: So, and again, even
like saying just remote

teams isn't enough anymore.

Just cause that could be anybody you
might, you know, that's not good enough

So.

Mario: That makes a lot of sense.

And given the fact that you I'm
assuming have more developers in

your sphere or networks, right.

that makes a lot of sense to target
developers, designers, creatives.

Alan: I mean, it's it's what I know.

Right.

So I it'd be really difficult for me to,
and I've seen this with other startups

I've worked with as well.

If you start trying to sell
to somebody who you don't

have any experience working with, well,

how are you building a product for them?

How are you going to talk
to them in their language?

You can't, you know, it's unless
you have a very close company

that you can work with and

learn from and build

a case study from them.

Well, okay.

That's fair enough.

But if you're just like,
Sell to those people

over there,

then it's good.

And it's frustrating,
cause I know this and I

should've

done this before, but

it's

You know,

Mario: yeah.

That's the way it goes.

No, that sounds great.

I, I think that's really good advice.

That's awesome.

So you're going to be working on that
and making some of those changes.

Alan: Well, yeah, the, I mean, the,
the first initial of the things I'm

doing right now are I'm in paddle
integration just because I, I don't

want to leave that any longer.

If I sign anybody

up, you know, in two weeks time,
I want the option for them to.

pay,

basically, it's,

I've just got to get over that hurdle
in terms of it being just, oh, it's

an ongoing, ever beta right now.

I, I w I want something
where it's like, okay, it's

it's version zero.one four,
whatever that is, that's that,

and you know, there's price.

And if it's discounted, then that's good,
but you know, it's an early version.

So something that says, okay, now

it's, we're launched.

I'm desperate to do that.

And then.

Once that's

working then.

Yeah.

I'm going to

redo landing page

and see what the,

I mean, as we've said

before, the, to do list of features
is it's never going to disappear,

Mario: Yeah, it's never ending for sure.

Alan: And there's nothing, there's no
nothing broken in the application and

it's useful as it is.

So therefore, you know, call it
early access and let people in.

Mario: go for it.

Go for it.

For sure.

Yeah.

so

Alan: it's launched, then
you can just grow it, right?

Mario: yeah, yeah,

So before we wrap up, we wrap it up.

Just wanted to share,

One quick thing about fusion cast.

Alan: Yeah.

You haven't

Mario: I have

been able to spend that much time working

on it.

But one thing that I, I did try,

Was a

new approach to recording.

To try to eliminate that issue

that, happens every now

and then if, people close
the browser in the middle of

recording and I hit a dead end.

So after that, I reevaluated and decided
to put that on hold, because it's gonna

take a lot longer to figure that out.

It's going to take a long time.

I want to.

Focus on other areas instead where I
can make improvements that are needed

based on the feedback that I received.

And I know I can make those
happen a lot quicker and, show

some progress and show that the
product is improving and evolving.

Even if I have this.

One little thing lingering
that I'm not comfortable with.

It doesn't seem to be happening a lot.

And if I educate users about the proper
way of using the product and the proper

way of ending a session, it will decrease
the number of instances that happens.

And also if that happens, I was
thinking that I would, it would

be better since I, wouldn't be
working on, fixing that problem.

I would, instead.

As part of the other improvements, I would
give users access to the backup recordings

in case they need them.

Right.

So if this thing

happens, they have access to the, backup

recordings, themselves.

And that kind of moves the needle a
little bit and keeps the product evolving.

and at some point I'll
get around to working on

this issue

Alan: I think that's fair.

Yeah.

I think you, you could

tie

yourself up in knots for the
next few months trying to, you

know, rework how this works and

You know, it, as you said, for
99% of times, it's not an issue.

And, for that 1%

while you've got a backup rate.

So,

You know, especially if you, as
you say, improve the communication

about how you're supposed to

do it, then is there any way.

Forcing a session to

effectively finalize like in the
UI, if it's left hanging maybe

Mario: Yeah, that's what recovery mode is

supposed to do, but.

Alan: if it doesn't, is
there some way of effectively

like deleting that and

saying, okay, this failed completely.

So it's not just left as a, a spinning,
like, like dead session in the

Mario: Yeah, no, there's no
way to do that right now.

And I need

to add that

Alan: right But that's what I say.

like sorting

things like that out, Mike
just, well, you know, they get,

get rid of the niggly things.

Mario: yeah.

yeah, so that's what I decided to do.

So I'm going to be
focusing on these little

things

Alan: a good

Mario: and move

the product forward and,

Hopefully I

can, get to the point where I
integrate billing and, start

charging, you

know,

Alan: I mean, you're, you're right

there too,

you know,

it's

it's, it's an incredibly
useful and usable and

polished product, so

get it launched and then improve.

So same things What I'm trying to convince

myself to do.

Mario: Yeah.

Thank you.

Well, yeah, you're, you're
almost there too, so Yeah,

Alan: It feels like
that's just the beginning.

Right.

Mario: Yeah,

Alan: We finally got to the start line.

There we go.

Mario: yeah.

Yeah.

All right, cool.

So should we

wrap it up here?

Alan: It sounds like you've got stuff.

So, yes.

Mario: Yeah.

All right.

So I'll see you in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Always, always a pleasure.

I'll see you in a couple of weeks.

Alan: Yep.

Good luck.

get your billing set up.

That's my plan too.

So.

Mario: Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

Thanks.

Alan: on.

Take a good to good luck with
the job on Monday as well.

Hopefully all

goes well,

Mario: Thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

Take care.

Alan: Cheers man